Moderator Warnings [split from MM8BDM Challenge Thread]

[UnTrustable]

By the three replies, only ONE is good. :)
And yes, Metal is ONE of the only few sofar where i saw improovements over the years.
The other two just confirmed my point made by my previous posts. You do not understand.
Why don't you understand? You claim that i have missed YOUR point?
I really didn't.
I also figured it out WHY you don't understand my point of view in this matter.
I indeed didn't do my homework when it comes to SwiftShot dude. As i said, i dont know him, and i certainly am not interested in whatever happend with him and what he really did and WHY he did whatever he did.
I DID however see what Decay did, and ofcourse you dont have to bent for him, or BAN(ned) for him.
But what do you think what will be the result if you:
1) slap him on the fingers ( you give him 1 or 2 days his room (like a child who needs to be punished by sending him off to his room) to think this matter over for awhile....?
2) You bust his face until he bleeds ( you give him the same dis-respect as he did to you... and send him off to his room for 1 or 2 weeks if not, 1 or 2 months....?) to think this matter over for awhile...?
If there is a third option, feel free to add it, but what is the differences between my again 2 examples?
The different approach-methode is indeed absolutely not waterproof, because there are always other people who will or can abuse these approach.
Thats why its impossible to give a 1 solid solution in this matter.
The other two reply-ers, are way below my level. For the two of you, you should better learn to understand what others are trying to say, no matter if there is a grammer problem.
That alone is already an improovement for yourself... unless you choose NOT to improve yourself. That decision is always yours to make.
Claiming ME as being a possible troll, means that it is YOU who has to be a troll !
Simply because you know now my weakness, and you seems to be eager to use it.....
For what benefit? You beat me, i can't tell... (actually i can)

Im pretty tired of the trolls here, trolling ME ! I wasn't even planning to come back to this kindergarten, if only one dude didnt contacted me recently to trigger my curiousity.
There seemed to be a fight over here... that was the only reason i came here, maybe to give my 2 cents, but
i already regret it. Just burn this shithole to the ground IF YOU CHOOSE FOR IT. My reasonability and calmness are completely destroyed by people like the mentioned troll and the trolls wannebee's.
You want me to be a troll, you can have it !

I can't really gather anything constructive from your argument

That is correct. I am not really constructive right of now, simply because i already KNOW where this subjects goes to, if Metal wasnt here with her GOOD reply.

If we never warned or banned, people would be more inclined to outrage like they have been lately.

And what is the result out of THAT? I am pretty much angry too!? You staff members had warned me too a couple of times, and for what? For being offended by some doings of 1 staff member who found it extremely funny to put a "I'm a troll!" underneath my avatar?!
WHY would i not being PISSED ALL OVER THAT?
and WHY should i not go public with this type of trolling?
People have the right to know what funny ONE forum moderator can be !
Im still pretty much curious WHO this one staff member was by the way.....!

[Ruin]

-As Metal said, we don't ban nearly as often.

-I personally post "verbal" warnings in offending threads before passing out warnings. If you go look at the logs, I hardly pass any out.

-Some people who support decay and his actions were in agreement over the ban (please correct me if I am wrong about this). Metal already explained swift's ban. Decay wasn't just banned for that post btw. We've gotten complaints about his hostile posting in the past.
His ban wasn't 1 or 2 months. It is 2 weeks. I feel like Decay offers good points, just that his approach needs work.

-Saying the staff doesn't compromise at all is utter crap. The recent unbannings of Ivan, Bluewiz, and Puhax are proof enough of that. That's why this discussion forum exists.
If people have grievances, they can bring them here. If someone has a concern, we'll take a look at said grievance and rethink the decision made. Almost like checks and balances.

-You keep mentioning this "alternate approach" yet provide no examples other than "don't warn". While I agree that some mods are a little trigger happy with the warn button, I think we're already working to improve this.

-Having a melt down because people don't agree with you isn't going to help. Just sayin'.

-I'm beginning to feel like this is less about the community and more about how you feel you were supposedly wronged as an individual.



EDIT: Let's keep things on track please. I'd rather not see a discussion thread boil down to personal attacks and meme garbage.

[UnTrustable]

@Ruin: What part of this "alternate approach" do you not understand?
Have you not read the police officer example at page 3?
And the 2 examples of page 4, which are the exact same thing but layed down even more easier?
I have given 2 times over what i meant with the "alternate approach".
And for those who needs details, i can tell you there is no 1 solid waterproved "alternative approach",
simply because people are not all the same, so are the several problems here in this community.
Maybe THAT is the reason why i cannot explain into details what my "alternate approach" really offers.
Besides, nobody seems to be interested in walls of text, so maybe thats another thing that i would not
put my energy and soul to explain myself into details.
The wall of text problem also explains why i started to yell that you guys dont want to make compromises.
As you can see now, everything i say, comes from somewhere. I dont make things up.

[Dusk]

Have you not read the police officer example at page 3?

Uh, so you're trying to say you've been put to pay for your offences here?

[Watermelon]

Maybe THAT is the reason why i cannot explain into details what my "alternate approach" really offers.
Besides, nobody seems to be interested in walls of text, so maybe thats another thing that i would not
put my energy and soul to explain myself into details.

If you have a good point you should be able to condense it properly into a few lines. So do it.

[ibm5155]

hmm now i checked the warnings have a period...
So it´s not a problem =D if you get alot warns just stop posting for some months and came when you be 0% warn

[Ruin]

@Ruin: What part of this "alternate approach" do you not understand?
Have you not read the police officer example at page 3?
And the 2 examples of page 4, which are the exact same thing but layed down even more easier?
I have given 2 times over what i meant with the "alternate approach".
And for those who needs details, i can tell you there is no 1 solid waterproved "alternative approach"

Being condescending towards me isn't helping friend.

I've already stated that we're trying to cut back on warnings. I shouldn't have to repeat myself.

Your officer example is a poor one. That basically insinuates you don't want us to punish people for breaking rules. That or be a little more lenient (which I've already stated that we're working on. That's three times now).

You say you want less banning and a real warning system. What good is a warning system if you don't want us using it?
What good are laws if you expect to be let off the hook everytime you get caught speeding? Hell, that would be nice. I'd drive like a maniac everywhere.

So, in relation to your officer example. Would you keep speeding if you kept getting pulled over and ticketed over it?

[Cyber']

To Untrustable.

The "alternate solution" and your examples basically stated that you wanted us to not give out warnings...but there's a loophole in it you see.

Assume said police officer in example 1 let you off with a warning. You only like him because he didn't force you to pay for an offense you comitted. That's not respect.

Now assume that same officer saw you commit the same offense twice. He knows you now, and that same officer won't give you another warning. You will get a ticket, unless you know a lot of loose ends.

It's the same officer, and you committed the same offense twice, do you still respect that officer for doing the right thing?
Or do you hate him because you got a ticket?

Now in example 2 you're given a ticket right away. You may hate him but you'll most likely not commit that same offence again, unless you want another ticket.

The thing is, we have a bit of both. We have some who will warn you beforehand, and a few who won't. It's based on the person. However no offense doesn't go unchecked by the others. Like Ruin said, checks and balances. The biggest example was the recent Bluewiz / Ivan ordeal.


If we go by staying with just example 1, then we'll have a problem. We're open to being more lenient, but we're not going to hold your hand and slap you for every mistake. Anger the wrong guy and fists will be thrown. Keep that in mind.

EDIT: Also, when you first commented to Ruin, you stated that his post was a "good" post.
He didn't change it. Why are you now saying that his post is bad and he doesn't understand?

We'll be more lenient, but you guys have to help us out too.

[-Jes-]

No offense, but after having read UnTrustable's past threads and arguments, I do not consider anything he has to say worthwhile reading.
He's shown himself all too eager to challenge factually sound rules and working moderator standards with faulty logic, biased opinions and vague, factually unusable 'alternatives'.

Not once - especially since the Zandro migration - has he contributed anything useful to this community!

[UnTrustable]

Uh, so you're trying to say you've been put to pay for your offences here?

Only if im really guilty then i'll accept any punishment that fits the crime or offence.
I have collecting proove that while the "I'm a troll!" incident was going on, and the evidence indicates that i cannot found guilty in any way,
but still got punished for defending my stand with a half year ban, of which suprisingly got subdued.
I'm still very curious of who did that "i'm a troll!" tag.

Being condescending towards me isn't helping friend.

I condescending to no one! Thats a conception made by your own, and by your own only.
If you believe otherwise then that is your opinion. What i say, i mean it...(depending in what mood i am at that moment).
I just state where i believe things can go better and since we are discussing certain staff actions here,
i stated mine, and get punished for it. Thats not constructive if you ask me!

Your officer example is a poor one. That basically insinuates you don't want us to punish people for breaking rules.

Not at all. You all seems to miss the very point i made and interpret everything the absolute wrong way.
Its even look like that it is you who have language barrier. Anyways.... Every post made by the staff and or users
who are (un)deliberately putting me in a bad daylight, i have more the hard time to set things straight, and getting
me more pushed away from the points that i wanted to make.
If you really found the officer example a poor one, well i can't make it more simple to you than just that.
I can only repeat myself over and over...and over..
What i tried to tell you guys about the police officer is how i believe to get up the respect level.
I dont want to offend you, but you are really asking for it, if you really dont understand the police officer example.
Ofcourse you have to punish unacceptable behaviour.

BUT... do you give out a ban because suddenly at one day i get angry, screaming on the top of my lungs on the forums that some dult added a "I'm a troll!" tag underneath my avatar, of which i cannot remove via the profile control page.
So it had to be a moderator who did that.
But instead of dealing with the real criminal, you ban a victim?
So what means unacceptable behaviour to you?

Assume said police officer in example 1 let you off with a warning. You only like him because he didn't force you to pay for an offense you comitted. That's not respect.

Now assume that same officer saw you commit the same offense twice. He knows you now, and that same officer won't give you another warning. You will get a ticket, unless you know a lot of loose ends.

I really thought this was obvious, but i guess not, so hereby: The second time you get caught, you will get a ticket. For the officer in the first time, it wouldnt hurt to give the driver deliberately the feeling that he will get a ticket, so he gets 'nervous'.
To figure out later that the officer let the driver off with only a warning, that is enough of a scary-feeling to get a level of respect for THAT officer, and maybe for more officers.
Maybe you dont have that, but i do. If im not wearing my safety belt, and get away with only a warning, Im sure i will wear the safety belt next time.

And before you all attack me again, what if the second officer is NOT the first officer?
The first traffic offend, your name has already been registrated in the archive, so the next officer also 'knows you', so he or she will not let you go away twice without a ticket.
BUT WHAT IF, the officer was WRONG? In the previous officer examples i went out of the fact that the officer was right, but now... what IF he judged you wrong?
Would you accept the ticket?
AND THEN we come to my personal problem lately, where a possible moderator found it extremely funny to tagg me as being "I'm a troll!"....
And here we are.......
Do you guys needs to be more informed?
My post are really easy to understand IF you only knew what is going on around here.

EDIT , there is nowhere i say that Ruin's post is a bad post in its whole. He might think slightly different than i do, then yes.
Then THAT part may be a 'bad' part, but the rest is still a good post, so where did i state where i say his post is bad?

No offense, but after having read UnTrustable's past threads and arguments, I do not consider anything he has to say worthwhile reading.

And here is another problem in this community. The community calling me a jumpy one, but here you, -Jes-, here you do the exact same thing.
You also jump quickly on your conclusions.
I HAVE contributed lots to the Skulltag community, so there is your answer why you cant find any contribution from me to THIS Zandronum community.
I was to many times involved with insults and 9in my point of view) false accusations (maybe thats how Metalhead felt when she was being accused so many times back at the Skulltag years) !
THAt alone doesnt motivate anyone to contribute to a community that jumps to quickly to conclusions, based on not knowing anything better.
Play alittle more Coop type maps, like invasions... maybe you will notice the few maps i created for the Skulltag Community.
You figure it out yourself which invasion project i mean.
And mapping is not my only talent. Go check on ZDoom forums, go seek out my other talent in the sprite sections...
By jumping on conclusions so quickly, putting me in a bad daylight based on own conclusions, and i mean the community in its whole, will jeopardise this talent.
In 5 years i think i have proven myself greatly, not to be a troll or an asshole as some would call me.
So its all in your hands. Are we going to improve ourselves or are we going on the way we walk now?

End.

[Ivan]

Uh, so you're trying to say you've been put to pay for your offences here?

Only if im really guilty then i'll accept any punishment that fits the crime or offence.
I have collecting proove that while the "I'm a troll!" incident was going on, and the evidence indicates that i cannot found guilty in any way,
but still got punished for defending my stand with a half year ban, of which suprisingly got subdued.
I'm still very curious of who did that "i'm a troll!" tag.

You see the problem is right here. IF YOU THINK you are guilty. Why you? There should be more than just you, like, a part of community or some people. Just you thinking you aren't guilty won't help much.

[Medicris]

Alright mate. I'll bite. I feel as if there should be some things clarified.

Point one. I don't believe you understand what the word "troll" means. Having an opposing opinion on a matter is not "trolling". Disagreeing with you is not "trolling". Declaring that you will troll everyone is not trolling, since everyone knows you'll be trolling. Everyone's asking you reasonable questions and making logically sound, stoic rebuttals. Please leave your pride and emotions at the door, and do the same.

Two. About the admins intentionally trying to defame you, to put you in a "bad light". No one is making you look bad but yourself. You speak like an emotional wreck over a string of text underneath your name. If you have a valid point, it can be made concise instead of writing a wall of rant material to rebutt a point, which again, makes you look unreasonable and overemotional, and less likely to be seen as someone to take seriously.

Three. The guy who put said string of text underneath your name. It seems to me that going to a courtroom to solve something and then kicking and screaming at the judge would indeed get you thrown out. The administration was definitely trying to root out the perpetrator. Then again, seeing what you said, you were far out of line too. Maybe that's why you got banned. Please stop with the "you don't ban the criminal, but ban the victim?!" card, because it's not helping your case: you weren't cooperative with administrator's efforts to keep the peace while they tried to sort out your issue. Ivan and Bluewiz are recent examples of a case successfully handled, properly and cooperatively.

Four. I fully believe in the practice of cracking down hard on undesirable members of the community, for it's the only way to keep the filth out. Decay was getting complaints left and right long about his behaviour before his ban, and had been warned accordingly. He failed to comply over a period of time and knew he wasn't getting any more chances. The final outburst was the last straw, and was handled like the major infraction it was. Not to mention tossing the forgiveness the admins displayed to him previously right back in their faces.

To use your technique of analogies, a bratty teenager is warned many times to stop doing something bad, or his guardian will be forced to take action. Said teenager brushes these aside and continues, where a simple "slap to the fingers" isn't enough for his overall offence. Teenager is given punishment proportional to his offences. Are you insinuating that's the wrong thing to do, and instead let the teenager get off with a simple slap on the wrist for weeks of disrespect? You don't seem to factor in some people's open, automatic disregard for authority, they won't be "scared" into complying to "think about what they've done" by mere threats. They'll do all they can get away with if they're allowed to. Of course the teenager won't like his guardian for the punishment, but he pushed his guardian into doing it. That's why things are run the way they are (which is still very tolerant and willing to admit when something is miscalculated, again see Blue and Ivan).

Five. You may see yourself as not guilty for anything, that's not for you alone to decide. That's what the collective decides. So, we are.

[Catastrophe]

So, all this because someone put "I'm a troll" under your avatar?

[Medicris]

Pretty much.

[HeavenWraith]

Locked on OP's request.